Don Wins $17 Million Dollar Case – and other interesting
facts about Forensic Document Examination…

Bart Baggett: I believe it's section 13. So now, what
we're going to do is, if we can pull Don up here and
Taylor, and talk about the different aspects of document
examining.

You get paid a flat fee per day.

Curt Baggett: I charge a thousand dollars a day, but it's
optional whether or not…sometimes I fly in the night
before and I don't charge that day, and fly out the next
night.


But Don charges by the hour and by the mile, and by
the minutes and by the phone calls.

You know, he must be better – he dots his "i" closer than
I do, I couldn't do all that. Just give me a thousand dollars
and I'll do it. We have different fee structures, but let's
talk about the business first.

I read in the Dallas paper the other day, there's 143 people
that were released from Death Row in the USA, today.
Because, DNA has proved they were not guilty of the
crimes of which they had been convicted, and for which
they were being sent to the execution box.

Now, I don't know how many people are in prison, who
are not guilty. Or, how many people were on death row,
who got killed because they didn't get off in time, but I've
gotten one guy off of death row, with my handwriting
analysis.

And another guy, I don't know what happened to him, but
I did prove that he was convicted falsely, and I haven't
heard from him since, but I hope he got out in time.

Now, someone said, "You show me a person who's
happy, and I'll show you a person who some way or
another has learned how to serve his fellow man."

I get e-mails, I get letters, I get phone calls, and they
say, "You are an answer to my prayer, and thank you so
much for saving our lives," or "getting our estates out,"
or "proving the truth."

This month, when I left the other day, I think it was the
17th, and I had done 17 cases, this month. I have done
cases in every state of the USA, and probably about a
dozen foreign countries. There is a dearth of document
examiners in the USA, otherwise they wouldn't be
coming to Texas for me and Don to do their work. So,
there's a desperate need for people to help other people,
and save their lives.

Maybe not just on television, you see, but they don't know.
There are some terrible cases out there that just are waiting
for you – what we are trying to do today, is recruit you.

And Gary, you sign up before you leave here. Who else
has an interest in document examination? What have you
got to say about it, Don?

Don Lehew: Curt, a lot of these people may not be
interested in document examination, because they really
don't know enough about it – is that true? OK.

Document examination is totally different from looking
at personality from character traits. Document examination
requires that we really examine the document, and we don't
care what the personality traits are in this situation – we
just want to know, did that person sign it, or didn't they?

My very first court case, I told you, the jury awarded
seventeen million dollars, so this is real serious business.
My first case was Hunt Oil, out of Texas, vs. the Yemen
Arab Republic, a one billion dollar lawsuit.

Now again, we're talking about big dollars here – we're
talking about really affecting people's lives. There have
been two or three times that people were about to go to
jail, that I kept them from going to jail, and there have
been two or three times that people should have gone to
jail, and I helped get them there.

So, document examination probably pays a little better
than the personality and character traits. I do both, I
like to do both. I've got clients all over the country that
I do handwriting profiles for, business-wise.

And, I get excited about those little $75 to $195 deals,
almost as much as I do the thousand dollar or two thousand
dollar cases involving forgeries.

My three sentences are up, aren't they?

Taylor Morgan: They're up twelve sentences ago
(audience laughs)

Don Lehew: I'll come back to it.

Taylor Morgan: You know, I first learned about document
examining after I had been in the handwriting analysis business
for a couple of years, I think, and I was talking to Curt about
the case he did, where he got someone off death row.

Now, I've always been interested in Forensics, and the
Legal system and that kind of thing. I thought I would make
a really good lawyer, because I won in court one time. It
was a traffic case, but still, I won.

So, all these aspects really fascinated me about this, and now
I am in charge of this program, and it's amazing. So, what I
get to do is recruit experts, like Dick that you heard from
earlier, Don Lehew, Curt's always been in charge of this thing,
and pick their brains and put this together into a format where
you can learn how to do this as well.

The structure of the program, I'll just touch on briefly, and
feel free to stop me afterwards, and we can talk about it in
more detail.

This is a two-year program, and that's the minimum
apprenticeship for you to be a document examiner for
most of the organizations that you will want to join. And,
it's designed for you to not only learn how to do this, but
also to make money, while you're learning to do it.

So, our student's that started in September, are now
soliciting cases. They work the case, do the work-up
and then their mentor will verify their findings, and then
they split the fee – not bad! So, you actually get paid
while you're doing work, and you learn how to run a
business, while you're in the process of document
examining.

Now, this isn't done strictly by home study. We have
classes that meet by teleconference a couple times a
week. But, we also, once a year, will have a conference,
where we're all in the same spot. This year it will be in
October, in Dallas. All of our new students and our
returning students will be there.

That's where we'll actually have a lab set up. That's
where we learn to use microscopes, and do oblique
lighting, and do photography, and all those really fancy
things.

It's also where we do mock trials, where Don gets to be
the ass – I mean prosecutor. (audience laughs) To help
you practice your cross-examination skills, to become a
more effective speaker; thinking on your feet, critical
thinking, all of these things. So, it's a really exciting
program.

Again, I'd be happy to go into more detail about the
structure, and the costs – we do have financing available.
And again, the idea is to be able to have it pay for itself
as you learn how to do this.

I just testified for the first time in San Francisco, and the
judge said, "What makes you such an expert?" "It's on my
business card?" (audience laughs)

I didn't say that – but he did give me a little bit of a hard
time, which, it's all great experience, as Don said, "You
got your nose bloodied a little bit, but, you know, you
hung in there and he did accept the evidence," and it was
a great experience.

Don Lehew: We got a second check yesterday, or the day
before.

Taylor Morgan: Yeah, I like it, the checks are just showing
up in the mail, I've gotta like it! (audience applauds)

The first case was $1,500, and this last one was $500,
because at the moment it's just an examination, and we
don't know if it's going to go to court. Not all of these
go to court – what would you say the percentage is?

Don Lehew: About one out of ten.

Taylor Morgan: About one out of ten will actually go to
court, so for the most part, you'll do an examination, they
may even just want a verbal opinion, so you make a few
hundred bucks to call them back and say, "Yes, it's a
forgery," or, "No, it's not," and then you'll make a few
hundred more to make them a notarized letter as to
the findings. And then, generally, the charges will be
dropped, the case will be dismissed, the guilty party
will back off.

Question? On the $500 examination? That was actually
a very simple handwriting comparison. There was one
questioned signature, and there were four signatures to
compare it with.

Now, every case is different, but as Curt likes to tell you,
there are not a lot of very good forgers out there. Most of
the time, it's very easy to prove if it is a forgery or not.

In fact, one of the first exercises in the program was to
attempt forgery. Try copying three different handwriting
samples, and it was so hard to do. It might have been
the most aggravating assignment we had, would you say?
I mean, it was like, I can't do that to my hand.

So, it was difficult, and Curt likes to say in Court…

Don Lehew: It was for her, because you can draw a line
under her writing. And it was for Miranda, because she
writes really, really big, and to try to forge someone with
small writing is almost impossible, isn't it?

Miranda: yes

Taylor Morgan: And Curt likes to say in Court when
they ask him, "Well, did you see the originals?" He'll say,
"Well, sometimes it's absolutely necessary, but this is the
worst forgery I've ever seen, twenty years in the business!"
(audience laughs)

Don Lehew: It's an exciting and a challenging, stimulating
discipline. Those of us who are involved in it and have gotten
our nose bloodied a time or two, have come to understand the
Court system, how it all works, the players and the players parts,
and what that lawyer is supposed to do, and what this
lawyer is supposed to do, what role the judge plays, what
role the jury plays, and what you kind of…It's like Shakespeare
said – all the world's a stage for each player struts and frets
his hour upon the stage – is that right? As close as I'm going
to get.

All you have to do, is you gotta know your part. And once
you know your part, when it comes time to do your part,
you go for it. If there are any questions, or anyone wants
to talk in more detail, I'll be glad to meet with you and
discuss over dinner, or out in the hallway, or, you know,
in bathrooms, on the street corner, anywhere I can draw a
crowd.

One of my favorite cases is a case I called the $900,000
staple. What happened is, I had two ladies that came to
me, through their lawyers, that said, "Our father got
divorced from our mother, got remarried, and produced
two more daughters. And those two daughters said that
we messed with the will, and we're going to have to go
to court over it. What we're going to have to do is prove
that this will is legitimate. This will was typed on onion-
skin paper in 1943, and was stapled. There was an
original and two carbon copies – not machine copies.
We used real carbon paper."

The first copy had been unstapled and not put back
together, and the third or the second copy had been stapled
and was still intact. The holes around the staple had rotted
out real bad, and under the microscope I could see the staples
were just barely hanging on – they had almost rusted apart.

I told the lawyer, I said, "Let me keep this one, that has
not been pulled apart, because that's the key to our case."
"No, no, this is the original!" "Yeah, well," I said, "In
this case, this is the key to the case."

We get into the courtroom. The opposing attorney goes
through all his standard mumbo-jumbo under voir dire to
find out whether he's going to allow me to testify, and the
judge says, "He's the handwriting expert, we're going for it."

We start talking – now, one of the things we'll tell you, is
don't get cute on the witness stand. Now, Curt and I and
Bart banter back and forth with each other. On the witness
stand is not a good time to do that. On the witness stand
it's a little more prim and proper. I've only gotten cute on
the witness stand twice, and fortunately I've got by with
both of them, and I've decided that I probably don't ever
need to do that again.

In this particular case, the lawyer was asking me questions
about the documents and what about this, and what about
this; and this letter, this will, was typed on an old Royal
manual typewriter, the kind where you have to slap the
lever to make it go.

About halfway down, everything had been double-spaced
except one line, was single spaced. And the lawyer says,
"Well, how do you account for the fact that everything on
here is double-spaced, except for this one line that was
added later?"

"I said, counselor, I don't have to account for that, because
it wasn't added later."

"Well, how do you know that?"

"Because, if you match this document that has been pulled
apart and separated and restapled several times, to the one
that hasn't been pulled apart, they're exactly congruent."

Well, right down on the very bottom of the page, there was
one word, the right-hand margin was pretty well justified,
the lady that typed it was like 83, and that one word jutted
out by itself. That one word was not justified real well on the
right margin.

"Well how do you account for this one word that sticks out
here all by itself like that?"

I said, "Ah, counselor, that looks like something that I typed
and didn't realize it until it was done, and didn't want to have
to type the whole thing over."

"Oh, you type, do you?"

"Yes sir, I memorized the keyboard."

"Memorized the keyboard, what does that mean?"

I said, "Well, that top line on the keyboard is QWERTYUIOP,
the middle line is ASDFGHJKL, and I have a lot of trouble
pronouncing that bottom line."

Editors Note: You really have to hear that last comment
to appreciate it – the pronunciation of the lines of type
is quite entertaining.

He went berserk! He went totally berserk. He had all
his files like this, and he was standing there with his
file in his hand, and he said, "Your honor, I object, I
object! I strenuously object!"

And the judge said, "What is it you object to?"

"I object to this whole farcical proceeding!"

He slammed that folder down, papers exploded and went
everywhere. The judge reached over and very lightly
(tap, tap, tap with the gavel), "We'll have order in my
courtroom. Young man, one more outburst like that, and
you'll get to spend the weekend with us up here in our
jail."

I said I was cute, and got by, but there were about four
women on the jury that just blurted out laughing, and he
was incensed. (audience laughs)

I thought we were probably arguing over $20,000 or
$30,000 or something, I didn't think it was a big deal.
But, it was a big deal to these ladies. The first two
girls had said to the second two girls, "We know our
daddy loved you as much as he did us, and we're willing
to split this thing four ways."

The second two girls said, "Nope, no, ya'll cheated, we
want it all."

Well, I proved that that will was still intact, and that everything
was kosher, and that there were no changes on the will,
and the jury awarded in favor of my two clients. I'm happy
for them, and everybody's jumping up and down and jigglin'
and wigglin', and I'm jumping up and down a little too.

Well, I know you can have trouble imagining that, but I was.
(audience laughs)

And, the significance of it, I said, "Well, how did ya'll
come out on this thing?"

"We got it all, we got all $900,000 of it!"

I said, (gasp) "We were arguing about nine hundred – damn near
a million dollars? I thought it was twenty or thirty thousand
dollars we were arguing about!"

"Oh, you were great, you did so well!"

They won their case.

And, to try and aggravate me, they took my deposition.
They set up a video camera figuring maybe I'd be nervous
about being on video camera, but I'm kind of like Bart –
camera doesn't bother me – large crowds don't bother me,
and, anyway, clients want it, and that's the kind of stuff we
do.

I know that I'm affecting people's lives in a very positive, or
sometimes a very negative way, but the ones that are negative,
needed it that way – they've got…

Anyway, it's just such a challenge – those of you who watch
forensic files and stuff like that on TV – if you really enjoy
that, you would really enjoy being a document examiner.

Any questions? Yes… a little louder…

(unintelligible student question)

Don Lehew: I've got some stuff upstairs I can show you, but
I don't have anything down here.

Taylor Morgan: If your question is how to examine a document
in order to determine if it's a forgery, it really depends on what
you are examining. So, first of all, the types of documents that
you may examine could be any contested document – it
could be a will, could be a contract, a deed…

Don Lehew: a check

Taylor Morgan: …it could be a check, of course, autograph
authentication, "Yes, this is a genuine autograph."…

Don Lehew: I do a lot of that.

Taylor Morgan: …there's also election petitions, for example.
Don's done some cases where it could determine the outcome
of an election because the petitions were, you know, the same
person wrote the signature on every single page.

So, basically, any contested document. Now, what you may
need to do is, time-dating of a document, "Yes, this was
produced in this time period," you may need to identify a
type of ink, you may need to identify a type of paper, a
typewriter type, all kinds of things like that.

Now, strictly for handwriting identification, you want as many
comparison documents as you can find – as much handwriting
as you can find to compare. It may be a straight-out forgery,
"Someone else wrote this person's name," it may be a disguised
handwriting like the case you just saw on Texas Justice, where
a woman signed her own name, but she tried to make it look
like she didn't. He was able to prove it was not a forgery, and
that was the basis of the case.

What else can you add about handwriting identification?

Curt Baggett: Well, we get every kind of case you can imagine.
One of the cases I did last week, was from a corporate account.
She needed for me to verify a survey. She sent me 80 sheets,
and she said, "I want to know if the same person did more than
one of these."

There was a list of check blocks – everybody do a little block,
do about three of them in a row. Three little square blocks,
like you were going to check it, or put an x in it.

Now, if you want to do it on the other side of it, put three more,
and the first group, I want you to do checks. Put a check in
all three boxes.

The next ones, put an x.

Lee, where did you put your check? Right in the middle. x
is right in the middle.

How about you, where did you put yours? All over it?

(unintelligible student comment)

Curt Baggett: The pattern I got was, the little check marks
were right in the upper right-hand corner, and every one of
them went out of the right-hand corner with a long tail on it.
Now, that's very unusual. Anybody do it that way? You did,
OK.

(unintelligible student question)

Taylor Morgan: It doesn't mean anything for personality –
we're in the forensics side now.

Curt Baggett: We're looking to make a decision on what it
means. It means the same person did more than one, if they
keep doing it the same way. Because, all of us do not do it
the same way.

And then I blew it up, like Don said, you just take it down
to office depot and blow it up 150%, and I found little hooks
on the beginning parts of the x's. And then in the x's, they
would draw a line through it, and it kept showing up. This
same person did a bunch of reprints, over and over again.

So, the pattern emerged very quickly, that there were a
dozen of them that I pulled out in five minutes maybe, that
this same person did. So, I called her up and I said, yep,
this same person did more than one.

She said, I want to know all of it. There were 80. They
were numbered to 100, but there were only 80 sheets there.
And she was an amateur handwriting analyst, so she pulled
out the group and she sees the same group and the same
person, and she says these are written by the same person,
scatteredly.

So, it took me maybe five minutes to make a decision, but
I had to go through all 80 of them. Some of them didn't have
any writing on them. The ones that had writing on them
were easy, even though they were disguised.

So, I spent an hour or so total, but what took me the most
time was that I had to re-file them, one, two, three, four,
five, and then I had to label them, "questioned document
one," "questioned document two," "questioned
document three."

The bookkeeping took me twice as long as making the
decision. So, she sent me $400 for about an hour's work.
She called me back the next day and said, I'm sending you
five copies of handwriting. Tell me which person was
the culprit?

I pulled out the one on top and I called her and I said,
"Did you already go through these?"

And she said, "No, I thought it was number four."

I said, "No, I think it's number one, let me verify it."
So, it took me another hour, I guess, by the time
I prepared the letters, prepared the documents,
labeled them and then put them in the mail back to
her.

I made $800 with this corporation, looking at little
checks and x's.

Taylor Morgan: And if your question is how you
actually do the examination, there's a lot of ways
that that can happen. In some cases, the only
equipment that you'll need is a magnifying glass.
In other cases, you will use a copier to blow things
up by 200%, so that you can make a comparison.
Some things you'll make copies and cut and paste.
Sometimes you'll need to make
an overlay.

Essentially, there are a number of different methods
that you learn. Sometimes you get to color! It's so
fun!

Curt Baggett: Sometimes you can do a stereo microscope
with a camera on top, blow it up, make it look good and
pretty, and snap a picture of it.

Taylor Morgan: And then lighting can come into play,
you may use a light table to see it lit from underneath.
Again, we're going to learn oblique lighting, which is a
way of lighting from the side.

One of the more interesting cases that we're studying,
and I have to…actually, one of Don's, so I'm going
to take the words out of his mouth…but, it had
something to do with someone who was physically
unable to sign his name, so he signed his will with
an X.

Now, the friend that wrote the will out for him thought,
I think I could copy an X, how hard could that be?
So, he did a new will, had made himself the beneficiary,
and signed the X.

Well, some of you, when you sign your X, you go from
the left side first, and then the right. Some people do
the right side first, and then the left. Well, he did it
the opposite way. So, it was proven, when it was
blown up under a microscope and lit a certain way,
you could see that the ink pattern crossed in the
wrong way.

When he was asked why he attempted it, he said,
"Eh, I thought it was worth a shot."

Curt Baggett: He had about a half million dollars involved
in oil and so forth.

The oblique lighting that Taylor was talking about,
is that, if I tear this sheet off of this tablet, and have
a blank sheet under it, I can set a camera right here,
and shine lighting across it this way, and photograph
the indentions, and reproduce what was written on
that sheet.

We've got some slick stuff that people don't realize.
I've got a chemical called "pentane," that if
somebody has whited something out, I take my
little dabber and smear it on that white-out, put
the pentane on it, and it makes whatever was
written on it, just as clear as if the white out wasn't
there.

I photograph it and about 30 seconds later, the
pentane all evaporates, and you can't even tell I
was there.

Do what? (question from student) No, we have
some other stuff that will do it with black marker.
I get documents all the time where people will
black stuff out, and it annoys the hell out of me,
because I want to know what was under there.

Government people are really bad about that, and
I want to know what it said.

Don Lehew: Miranda, you've been in the class now since
September, d'you want to tell them what you're
doing?

Miranda: I've talked to several people in the class
since we've been here at the seminar, and I know
a lot of people are kind of concerned about a
funding issue. These guys are really great, they
have the payment plans, and they're working on
some other things.

So, if you guys are interested and money's your
only issue, don't let that stop you, because it's an
excellent program that works hand in hand with
the handwriting analysis.

And, all of the other things you're working on, like
the psychology, it all just gels together. So, if
just the money issue is the problem, don't let
that stop you, because it's a wonderful, wonderful
opportunity, that only advances everything else you
have been working on.

Don Lehew: And are you having fun?

Miranda: I love it! It's addicting. Once you get
in it, you just want more and more of it.

Curt Baggett: And there are as many women experts,
handwriting experts, or more, than there are men. So
don't let that stop you either.

Taylor Morgan: Because we look good in the suits and
coats…

Miranda: It's a great opportunity to increase what you're
already learning, and build upon that. And besides, when
you're through you're a court certified expert witness, and
that's invaluable.

Taylor Morgan: I do want to add, though, for those of you
that…I have been asked, "Well, do I have to finish the
certification course first?" And the answer is, no, these are
two completely separate disciplines. Now, the more
information the better, so it certainly doesn't hurt to study
handwriting analysis, but there are a lot of forensic document
examiners that have never studied graphology, or handwriting
analysis.

It's not necessarily going to be something that helps you in
court – you really have to separate the disciplines. As a matter
of fact, the judge that was giving me a little bit of a hard time
wanted to know what I did before document examining, and
I said that I had, you know, been a handwriting analyst, doing
personality profiling, and he was just so exasperated. And he
said, you know, "There's no court in the land…" And I said,
you know, it doesn't go to credibility in this case, Your Honor,
but you asked what I was doing before. They're too
completely separate things, and I understand that. He said,
"Well, good, thank you for being honest. What did you do
before that?"

"I was a radio DJ!" (sigh)

Don Lehew: That's when she got the shot in the nose.

Curt Baggett: Surprise, surprise Judge, I was funny!

Taylor Morgan: I said, again, it doesn't go to credibility,
but it's an honest answer. So, again, he did admit the
evidence, it was great.

So, they are two completely separate disciplines. You
are not required to have done any handwriting analysis
prior to starting this. And, as a matter of fact, you need
to try and separate the two, in the sense that you can't be
in court going, "Well, he's got this self-conscious 'm'.
No, it's just that the second hump is higher than the first,
you understand."

Don Lehew: This is our text book that we use for the course.
I've got Osbourne's book, and I've got Hilton's book – these
are gurus of the discipline. And I've got to tell you, this
is a better book than either one of those two. Curt found
this book, and I'd never seen it before, and I kind of flipped
through this book, and I said, "Damn, Curt, I've gotta have…
you want me to steal this one, or can you get me another
one?"

Curt Baggett: Taylor, why don't you tell them how the class is
structured and what we do?

Taylor Morgan: We have students all over the country,
on both coasts and in the Midwest. We also have a
company called Handwriting Services International, and
that's who you work for as you launch your business. So
again, while you're in the program…

What's that? Clever, yeah, thank you. It was…not my
idea. (audience laughs)

…the way the classes are structured is, we meet twice
a week. Again, it's a two-year program, and it's about
36 weeks of the year, so we do get breaks whenever
I need one – because I get to do the schedule. We're
going to be off a little in April.

What we do, is we have a secure student website, so
only students can access it, and that's where you go to
take your tests, that's where you download your case
materials, and your homework assignments, and you
check your progress report. Most of the communication
is by e-mail, as far as your updates. "Hey, you have a
new case, it's case #115, it's under class 43."

Real cases, real, live, actual cases. Why do you sound
surprised? It goes on your cv, your curriculum vitae, so
by the time you complete this program, you will have
done a minimum of 40 active cases, that's the bare
minimum, and you will have also worked ten cases
of your own, and taken them all the way through the
legal system to whatever degree they go.

Now again, that's just the minimum program requirements,
some people do quite a bit more than that, because again,
checks just keep showing up, so that's kind of a fun thing.

We do have details about the program, including
Frequently Asked Questions, some detail about how to
qualify for the program, that sort of thing, and there's
also, we want a handwritten application; yes, we want
to see your handwriting when you write about what you
think about document examination.

Now, we have sort of a limited number of these, so
Maryann will go around and distribute them. If you
know you're absolutely not at all interested, I would…
and again, feel free to ask us any questions…

Yes sir? In the fall we're taking 20 students. Some of
those spaces are already filled. The reason the program
is so limited, is because it's an apprenticeship program,
and you have a mentor that oversees all of your cases,
there's private tutoring time that's available outside of
class time, so it's a very time-intensive thing for our
professors and mentors.

20 students maximum, and we meet twice a week…

Don Lehew: Yes, one hour Tuesday night, and one hour
Thursday night.

Taylor Morgan: Yes. Think about the fact that, most four
year colleges, any big university can cost you $25,000 a year.
And a lot of people that are leaving with four-year degrees,
may or may not have a marketable skill. So, what you're
getting with this program, is something with pretty
unlimited income potential.

There was an ad for a full-time document examiner
in Los Angeles County, and it was over $80,000 a year.
That was actually last year. There was one in New York
for $98,000 last month.

You can choose to work for an organization, or a
forensics laboratory, or you can work on your own, in
which case, you name your price, essentially.

But, most experts get four to five hundred to examine
a document, and a thousand and up a day to testify
in court. And, you can charge expenses, you can
charge $75 an hour to talk to a lawyer, which may or
may not be enough, but it's got to be done.

Curt Baggett: We think by the end of the first semester,
you'll begin to make enough money to pay your tuition from
then on.

We don't let you do any cases on your own the first
semester or two.

Taylor Morgan: How intensive is the time, that's a great
question.

Everyone that is in the program has a day job. We
have a doctor, an accountant, a chemist, an engineer,
a police officer, a teacher, it goes on. It's structured
so that you should be able to do it – there should be
adequate time – even with full time obligations.

The classes again are twice a week, that's two hours.
You also want to read a chapter in the book, it goes about
a chapter every other week, with the test, and then there's
the time that it takes to examine the cases.

Yes? One hour, twice a week, yes.

Curt Baggett: It may be the best part-time business in America.

Taylor Morgan: Real quick, I just want to finish the
financing thing, because I didn't quite finish that. Some
people were able to obtain loans, to pay for it in a lump sum,
in which case it's discounted, depending on the
circumstance. There may be creative financing plans.

Again, like Miranda said, leave out the cost for a moment
and think about the work, and if it's something that you
would like to do, I would say take the first step and fill
out the application, and see if you qualify for the program,
because that's number one. And we can figure out the
money stuff later. And if it's something you really want,
we'll find a way to do it.

Curt Baggett: There's an added advantage to getting in now.
Miranda, a police officer in the daytime, is a deputy sheriff in
the daytime, and dispatcher for the city police at night. Well,
she tells me that all the police in Oklahoma have to take at least
18 hours a year of continuing education. This fits the bill.
They're tired of listening to the old FBI retired people who teach
the same thing year after year after year.

We need instructors, because we're promoting our new
company, and if it comes down to it, well, she got a referral.

The way she got her second case, was because they wouldn't
let me use Don. Because, he was in Dallas, and they thought,
well there's got to be other document examiners around the
nation, huh? I said, sure, I'll get you one. So, I called Taylor and
I said, call the lawyer.

The lawyer is in Kansas. The land that they're fighting
over is in Wyoming, and the trial will be in Ohio. I didn't
ask why. I just took his money and gave him my report.

So, Taylor calls the man up and talks to him about five
minutes and felt, well, I haven't heard from him, and then
she gets a check in the mail. For performing the same
service I already performed. She didn't ask me my opinion.
If it's different, she may fail the course.

Taylor Morgan: (laughing) I can fire you. (audience laughs)

Curt Baggett: So what we need, is people all over the country
as we're promoting our new company, Handwriting
Services International. Go to our website, and if it comes
into your territory, you'll probably get it.

Now, Don seems to think we'll have 100 students in
a year or two, very quickly, maybe more. If we start
getting the police force people in here, we'll have more.
We don't have...Don and I can't do any more.

Taylor Morgan: We're all familiar with identity theft,
and how prevalent that has come. If someone has stolen
your identity and has been signing your name, how do you
clear your name?

This has happened to friends of mine, and it has
taken months and months of heartache and aggravation
and ruined credit to try and clear their name. This is
something that's really needed, and there has not been
a school that you could go to, to learn this.

You can't get a college degree in this, and in fact, a
couple of our students said, I really researched where
I could go to learn this. Well, you can't, you have to
be apprenticed to someone. Well, if there aren't that
many document examiners, how do you find one in
your area that can mentor you full-time for two years?
You can't. In this case, you get all these experts.

Curt Baggett: Bob Byer talked yesterday, and he talked
a little bit about this. He's one of our students, too, so what
you guys might want to do, is go with Don or Miranda
or Bob, if you've got all the individual questions, if you
want to ask…

End Recording.